smallTalk 2025

Talk#2 with Patrick

The world is a series of inter-penetrating subtle energy realms. The energy levels themselves are not intelligent things. The human brain may struggle to conceive correctly of them. A table exists on the Physical-Etheric level but with no enlivening intelligence. People are on the Physical-Etheric level but they also have an enlivening intelligence from beyond that level.

There are intelligent Beings on all these levels – Physical-Etheric, Deep Emotional, Deep Mental, Higher Emotional, Higher Mental, and more beyond that. These Beings, which include Humans in a body, are not all on the same level inside themselves.

Most humans in a body are centred between the Physical-Etheric level and Deep Emotional level, a number are fully on the Deep Emotional (past the 2nd Initiation), few on the Deep Mental (past the 3rd Initiation), and very few beyond that (past the 4th Initiation).

Once out of a body perhaps half of the low-level humans remain centred on the Etheric, while the other half plus medium-level humans withdraw to become centred on the Deep Emotional.

Medium-level humans, past the 2nd Initiation, have been referred to in the past as “Once Returners” as there is a good chance for them to reach the 3rd Initiation in at most one more lifetime.

Someone past the 3rd Initiation, in Gurdjieff’s or Abdullah’s terminology, can be called Human#4. They are often referred to as “Non Returners” as they have broken free from the need to return to the Earth, but still have work to do to fully escape the 3 lower worlds of human existence – cycling between the Deep mental and the Deep Emotional until refined enough to move onto the 4th energy level.

The few past the 4th Initiation can be called Human#5. Those Human#5’s centred on the 4th energy level (Higher Emotional), with a developing connection into the 5th energy level (Higher Mental) are the only ones fully free from the 3 lower realms – they are beyond the rounds of lives and deaths that can otherwise haunt humans for thousands of years.

Religions call the 3rd energy level (Deep Mental realm), Heaven. They seldom talk, other than indirectly, about the 4th energy level and beyond.

They refer to Higher Beings (out of a physical body) as Angels and Gods. Religions teach devotion, adoration, even fear, towards these beings, but no Higher Being asks to be worshipped, adored or feared – although many low level teachers and etheric beings out of a body do. Respect, gratitude and humility towards the true Higher Beings is a more correct approach.

Almost all religions have some sense that every person has a Guardian Angel. They are beings who have passed the 3rd Initiation. Inner Guide is probably a better name for them but religions tend to overdramatise and call them angels. Typically in the Abrahamic Religions the Angel Gabriel represents your Inner Guide. Religions may also recognise 3 Higher Beings together forming the 3 aspects of their idealised Supreme Higher Being – for example Father–Son–Holy Spirit, Shiva–Vishnu–Brahma,

The evolutionary process is we begin centred in the Physical-Etheric, gradually raise our vibration to centre ourselves in the Deep Emotional, then later the Deep Mental and on to the Beyond.

There are 3 levels within the Deep Emotional. The part that touches the Physical-Etheric which is constantly disturbed by the rough activity within the Physical-Etheric. The part that touches on the Deep Mental which is constantly being influenced from higher beings and forces within the Deep Mental. There is the central part which is the depths of the Deep Emotions, which is responding to other intelligent beings on that same level.

The development of the lowest part of the Deep Emotional is to not overreact to the difficulties of the Physical-Etheric life – the Earthly Soul. Find some thing in your self that stands above that, gradually separate from it. The middle section of the Deep Emotional is refined by purifying your relationship with those with whom you are closely connected.

The most efficient way to move from the level you are on to the level above is by connecting with Intelligent Beings on the next level – not by simply connecting into that amorphous energy level itself, although some do attempt this. In the physical side of taiji the intention that leads to connection is an element of the most subtle training. It is the same on the Deep Emotional level. Through intention you work to establish a foothold on the Deep Emotional level and bring yourself into a pure enough state to be able to attune to what flows back.

The higher part is then refined mainly by first connecting to Higher Intelligent Beings on the Deep Mental, then refining the way you make those connections. That’s why the Sufis use the chain of prophets or Old Teachers to call down help from those Higher Beings on or beyond the Deep Mental which is the realm Abrahamic Religions may call Heaven, the Chinese call the Celestial Realm, and the Buddhists might teach as the Pure Land

The Naqshibandi Sufis have been successful in raising people in this way towards the heights of the 3 worlds of human existence, the Deep Mental. When the Sufis concentrate in the middle dantian they use the names of Old Masters from the past. But they don’t use those beings names when concentrating on the lower dantian, the realm of the Physical-Etheric. Also when concentrating on the upper dantian, the realm of the Deep Mental they do not use the Old Teachers – they use pure light.

The main Naqshibandi exercise is the 7 points, 5 in middle dantian, one in lower and one in upper. This exercise would usually be given out only to these already past the 2nd Initiation. For most modern Sufis they also require people to be a Muslim, but actually the Sufi teaching goes back well before the time of that religion being founded, which is made clear by them using the names of the Old Teachers and Prophets some of them believed to have lived 1000’s of years ago.

First you are taught to concentrate on the heartbeat until you feel warmth and the heartbeat itself. That is the first connection into the Physical-Etheric world. It is not done as extensively as in taiji because they hope to pass quickly on to the Deep Emotional. Then you are taught to repeat the Divine name Allah with the beating of the heart. Allah simply means God in Arabic.

You may also be given a longer mantra to repeat with the heart beat – “La ilaha illallahu". God is everything, there is nothing but God. That concept of God could be considered a little more refined than thinking of God as an old man in the sky.

After a time if that is working well, you may be given the other 6 points. There is a mantra for each of the 5 central points, each involving one or more of the Old Teachers from the past. The Sufis typically teach it in Arabic but I was given it in English. Its original language was likely Aramaic.

Then for the centre of the lower dantian they say “Lord deliver us from the Nafs”, as they seek to separate themselves from the Physical-Etheric partially freeing themselves to jump straight to the Deep Emotional.

That is then followed by the centre of the upper dantian with “Lord send us the light”. There is no Old Teacher or Prophet associated with the Deep Mental.

As the Deep Mental is the main aim of most religions it explains how the more advanced internal teachings can be held back by this religious idea of Heaven as the final goal. Its the level where you don’t come back into a body. Once people attain it they may feel they have arrived. So even Sufis struggle to make it past that level.

It could happen much earlier on the etheric world, which some call the ‘other side’ then spend their life developing awareness and later gaining some small power there, never imagining something much greater lies beyond it.

The same again can happen on the purely physical level where people spend their whole life gaining knowledge, skill, power and money not realising that is only the most external thin layer of the reality of life, then centre themselves on the Earthly Soul so that when the body dies they die with it.

To summarise, the method of connecting into the level above is really to connect with the Intelligent Beings on that level. It cant be done purely by climbing up from below by yourself. A small child can’t find their way, they need help from adults until they are well on the way. A baby’s etheric system is a small child when born. They can’t survive by themselves, but are supported by the etheric system of there mother which supports the baby’s gradual growth.

You can’t really see what level Beings beyond your own level, are on. But because each level touches the one below it and the one above it, you may be able to get some impression of them being on that next level or beyond that, without exactly knowing how much beyond. That poses a problem if you are going to learn from teachers or etheric contacts presenting themselves as Higher Beings, so you need to take care in these circumstances.

Q&A

Q: Can you realistically connect to these Old Teachers with whom you have no close connection. With the example of the child and mother above there is already a close connection?
P: The Sufis give this exercise from teacher to student. They consider the exercise has no power without the connection to the teacher and the chain of connections back through the teachers before them.

You also have your Inner Guide to help. If you made an effort to connect with the Old Teachers or prophets the connection would be made most likely through the Guide, although their existence is on the Deep Mental level which is quite far away from a beginner – you would need to be approaching the 3rd Initiation to make reasonable conscious contact directly with the Guide. However they have easy access into the Deep Emotional where you can more reasonably connect with them.

That’s partly why the exercise might only be given out to those already past the 2nd initiation. The inner worlds are complex, there are general ideas and multiple exceptions. The higher and more detailed we discuss it the more likely errors will creep in.

An example, Ramana Maharshi, who was connected to the 3rd Force of the Sun (the 1st Ray) – which is why his teaching has spread and persisted – would sometimes return to his ashram in India to raise the vibration and help those who had journeyed there, but at other times he might send a lesser Being, perhaps past the 3rd Initiation, to look after that situation for a time.

Q: How do we improve the quality of our connection to those beyond us?
P: You train all the things we are teaching and you gratefully recognise the help that is given. Another story – after Abdullah died he visited Ni HuaChing in the mountains of USA and requested he visit NZ to help his students. He considered Master Ni the most suitable teacher on the Earth at the time, the most compatible and capable. But the main group of Abdullah’s NZ students turned master Ni away saying they were Sufis and he was Chinese and the methods weren’t compatible.

Master Ni told me the thing about Abdullah was he knew exactly what you had to do to develop yourself. When I had asked Abdullah exactly that question some years earlier he said 2 things needed – your own struggle to follow the teaching and purify yourself, and the energy that flows down through your teacher. The teacher needs to be at the 3rd initiation or beyond. You need their physical presence I’m not fully clear why. That energy comes to the teacher from someone on the Earth passed the 4th Initiation.

You need the 2. You can’t just hope to sit with a teacher and rise to their level without your own effort. You also can’t hope to just do it all with your own meagre effort. The energy that flows down from above passes through a chain of intelligent beings. Level by level but occasionally it can jump a level. You can meet your Guide for instance on the Deep Emotional even if you haven’t yet fully reached that level yourself.

Most of the teachers I met were passed the 3rd Initiation when I met them, then later approached or passed the 4th Initiation while I still knew them. That’s how my understanding about that process was gained.

Q: What place does the motive play in connection?
P: Motive sets the base level of the intention but the intention itself can add to or subtract to that base level. If you are asking for help to refine yourself internally that is an allowable request. Abdullah said – you can start a thought with a high connection and by the end of the thought it might degenerate to the level of the jinn. Your guide may begin a sentence and a jinn can finish it.

Q: What does a teacher do practically to raise the level of the group?
P: Different teachers have different methods. Most give out some practices, then when you follow their practices that helps build your connection to them. Then the teacher will naturally take some responsibility for your practice which will enhance the connection further. If you make up your own practices you will receive little help. Your Inner guide will try but can’t do much in such a case.

That’s why a genuine teacher can only manage and truly take responsibility for a certain number of close students, perhaps 10 or 20, for some up to 100. Abdullah when past the 4th Initiation said he could manage perhaps 400 but that was due to the extra 1st Ray or 3rd Force support. The Buddha managed perhaps a 1000.

Q: Its obvious that there is energy here, we make an effort but what do you do
P: The flow of force through the teacher is not under the direct control of the outer part of the person. Everyone has a certain degree of Being on the 3 worlds of human existence, greater or smaller on each.

When you die you know you are the etheric but while alive you know almost nothing about it. The Deep Emotional is an infant for most so not much goes on there. Pass the 2nd and then activity begins but you still know little about it in the outer self. Pass the 3rd and the same takes place on a higher level.

The Deep Emotional is already very distant to the outer self. Still, in your dreams you can have some conscious contact with it. But the Deep Mental is so far away from the outer self that there is almost no connection between the two. So the higher you go the more the separation between outer and Inner Self grows. It is the Inner Self of the teacher through which the 3rd Force of the Sun (the first Solar Ray) flows down to any genuine esoteric gathering of people.